Impression

[alfin]

I received my WhiBal cards today. I’m impressed by the quick delivery to Europe and they work just fine! However, I’m not very impressed with the workmanship. The cards are not exactly the same size, very rough edges and too many scratches on the first card due to bad handling. I understand this is the first production batch and this has nothing to do with their function, but it gives a bad impression from a quality point of view. Michael, improving your manufacturing process a bit would make them much more appealing.

[MichaelT]

I agree.

We are in that process. There were manufacturing issues on the first run, and customs (they are built in Canada and then sent to me in New Jersey) ripped apart all the boxes and dumped the cards back inwithout packing materilas in place.

So we are spending a lot of time to inspect, reject. The first ones were a little rough. All recent ones have more inspection, and the edges are sanded. A quick wipe on 220 grit is all that is needed.

All card that are now shipped have been re-worked here at RW.com or by the manufacturer, so current shipments are as they should be. And of course improvements will alwyas be made as we learn more.

Thanks for your feedback and sorry for the rought edges. Since we knew that the "issues" would not affect the performance, we decided to ship based on the overwhelming response. If anyone is not satisfied, please email to me and I will try to make arrangements. The biggest problem was the edges were not smooth from the die cut. This is easily cured with the 220 grit sandpaper, and I regret that I am asking you to do this. Again, thanks and let me know if you think a replacement is in order.

We are making all efforts to ensure proper quality and all current shipments have been carefully checks and reprocessed.

There may be a gap in deliveries as I am sending back the rest of the prodcution run for re-work at the factory. And we are reconsidering our packing here at RW.com. Looking a shipping box rather than an envelope.

All should be in place shortly.

We aim to make WhiBal not only work well, but look and feel good.

[Norbert75]

Hi !
I got the same problems then Alfin : cards scratched and smashed on the INNER side (black card)
The delivery was pretty quick (in Paris - France) but I was very disappointed by the poor finishing ofthe whibal cards !
I sent a mail last Friday to Rawworflow support and I'm still waiting for an answer...
Well I shall hope that it was a minor hitch ...

All the best

Norbert LE ROY

[flyingphoto]

Michael,

I wrote you earlier and informed you of the quality problem. However, It does work wonderfully with the grey card white balance.

I am a little disappointed that I paid so much for a card that, as it does function, looks like it was stamped with a cookie cutter and not finished and I had to clean it with a gum erasure to get it white and light grey again.

Will there be any difference with the re-worked version that us as the origional buyers will not have other than a possible storage box?

Tom Quinn

[MichaelT]

Better finish of the edges is all, and cleaner. There will not be a storage box, but a shippiong box is one of the things that we are looking into.

We may change manufacturers, but the materials will stay the same. Just the fit and finish will improve. The grays are quite perfect. And the black and white is as good as can be obtained in a plastic, although we keep looking for better. They are quite neutral (as good or better than Gretag CC) but we always look to obtain blacker black and whiter white.

[herboldjk]

Michael et al - please do not take this the wrong way. One man's opinion is just that: one man's opinion.

I don't own the WhiBal cards but was considering purchasing them at some point down the road. I must tell you that I'm shocked at your business strategy and decision rationale. Yes demand is demand and customers might be eagerly awaiting the release of a product, but to knowingly ship a product that has problems, material or not, is bad business sense. To say that you knew the "issues" wouldn't affect performance and still go ahead and ship is a mistake in my opinion. I don't care if they still work, nobody wants to pay full price for an unfinished product. What if Canon released their MkII and everything worked just perfect but the grip had a seam in it from where there was a gap in the molding? Now imagine upset customers called Canon and they were told to go to Home Depot, buy an exacto knife and shave it off. I'd imagine Canon would have a lot of angry customers beating down their doors for a replacement product.

Delaying shipment might upset some customers but I would bet that they'd rather wait a week and have a quality product than get an almost-there version in the mail. Even if you had to sand them yourself and then ship them out, that would have been better. Now you have a blaring disparity between your customers. Alfin paid the same as I have to pay if I order now and I am getting a higher quality product (quality goes far beyond functionality - it encompasses every aspect of a product).

I am again shocked when the problem is brought to your attention by multiple people and your first course of action is to ask them to sand the cards themselves. Only later do you meagerly offer the option to send the product back. Differentiate yourself with service. Anyone can make a WhiBal card. What will make or break customers is your service. That's how business works these days.

In light of recent events with C1 and the public outcry over upgrades/features/versions etc., you are in no position to offer anything but excellence. Your latest product, in my opinion, does not do that.

I have full faith that even the rough batch works as promised but what kind of feeling do I have about future service and your attitude towards your products when you ask customers to go buy sandpaper and fix it themselves?

Just some food for thought and again, only one man's opinion.

[barbel]

I too have received my WhitBal card and immediately sanded it on the edges. Then I went and bought a retractor from a flyfishing store, hung it onto my camera bag with the card attached and it rolls itself back into place. Not only does the card work like magic, inspite of the rough edges, the additional gadget keeps me from loosing it.
By the way, I have been following this forum for quite some time waiting for this card and there are some very dedicated members here. Thank you for all your information that so many of you share so willingly. So little time and so much to learn.
Barbel

[MichaelT]

Barbel,

We are planning to offer a retractor. So far the only one I have found only extends 30 inches. How far does yours extend. Can yo uplease send me details. Thanks so much. Sorry for the edges but glad the WhiBal is working well for you. That is why I shipped as it was. We are upping our quality and mfg standards. But the color standards have always been on target. The Gray cards are PERECTLY neutral. <1 in both the Lab *a and *b channels in all past and present shippments. That was never in question.

Thanks...

Whibal@RawWF.com

[barbel]

Barbel,

We are planning to offer a retractor. So far the only one I have found only extends 30 inches. How far does yours extend. Can yo uplease send me details. Thanks so much. Sorry for the edges but glad the WhiBal is working well for you. That is why I shipped as it was. We are upping our quality and mfg standards. But the color standards have always been on target. The Gray cards are PERECTLY neutral. <1 in both the Lab *a and *b channels in all past and present shippments. That was never in question.

Thanks...

Whibal@RawWF.com

Dear Michael,
My retractor is only 22 inches long, just the lenght of my arm, but it unclips very quickly from the camera bag or belt. I did not look any further since in this case it is good to be a short person. The company making the retractor seems to be in your neck of the woods. Cortland Line company, Inc., po Box 5588, Cortland NY. PO Box 5588 (Retrieve-it Senior) Someone asked if one can use the WhitBal card at arm's length with the 70-200f/4 lens and I am sorry to say it does not work since it needs a longer distance to focus and shoot.
Not the fault of the card which I love.
Take care,
Barbel

[MichaelT]

It is not a bad thing for the card to out of focus. The onlt criteria is that the lighting at arms length is the same "color" as the light in the subjects. So the out of focus 70-200 is fine. In fact it is better for it to be a little out of focus. The reason is because if there is a dirt spot or a reflection (unlikely on the gray cards) the out of focus averages out the color and makes it more uniform, meaning that any spot of dirt (that you might otherwise click on) would have less effect.

[nickpoore]

Well, I too was not greatly impressed with the arrival of the cards.

They did arrive quickly, and were fairly well packaged.

However, the surface seems to scratch fairly easily.

I ordered the studio ones, and should have ordered the smaller ones. The studio ones are definately too large to carry around.

I feel that they should have some kind of "pouch" to keep them in to stop them from getting scratched up in my camera bag.

I haven't been out to shoot since getting them, but have an event this weekend when I'll try them out.

-=Nick=-

[trustworthya1]

Got my cards this week. This is a useful product. The edges on my cards are rough too. This is a disappointment as the product is expensive for what it is. Fit and finish should be really nice for $45.

[MichaelT]

Fit and finish is agreed. We are correcting that now. We are out of our first production run and the second one will be improved.

Regarding scratching. The design part of WhiBal is that like Corian in your kitchen, the color of WhiBal is consistant throughout, so that a scratch does not matter in terms of color. Unlike a gretag chart or a Kodak Q13 or Q14, the color is not just on the surface it is through and through and perfect all the way through. So either leave the scatches, or sand them with 220 grit or finer. One cannot prevent scatches, but on a gretag the card is ruined, on a WhiBal you have no problem if you own a piece of sandpaper or even if not. We supply a plastic pouch that will not prevent gouges but should hel to prevent little scatches, but again they do not matter. As part of the manufacuring process we sand the surface to make it non-relflective. so do not be afraid to sand away scratches or just ignore them. Obviously if the sratch is deep it can cast a shadow, but the card is big enough that there should be enough real estate to take care of this. I will look into thicker plastic for the bag. I do not like the idea of an opaque pouch because I wanbt to be aboe to see the contents of the bag. One of the benefits of WhiBal is that it gets used, and to put it into a pouch will hide it which I am philosophically opposed to. Thanks for your feedback and support.

The person with the studio cards. Drop me a line and we can arrange a swap to pocket versions, with a slight restocking charge. Just let's not make the change now based on having run out of the first production run! There will be a 1-2 week gap in shipments. Sorry...response was even better than expected :>)

[mcanyes]

Michael,

I find the reflection from the black card to be a problem. I have to be very careful of the angle when my subject holds the cards. Any chance of a replacement for that card in the future?
Thanks

[MichaelT]

Stay tuned. We are making refinements. So far the Gretag Gray Scale card is best at holding back reflections, but the card is big and the abosultue luminance is not quite as dark as the Whibal. We are working on a solution that should be the best available, and can be retro fit into existing cards.

The Black point is the toughtest part. We worked hard to create the Black that we use in the WhiBal but as you point out in the real workd the reflections are the real issue regardless of how well the card measures. So like I say...stay tuned.