When to use light versus dark gray cards?

[trustworthya1]

I make photos with a 10D and convert from CRW using PS CS. I just got the WhiBal cards, The FAQ says to use the light gray card. Why is there also a darker gray card? I clicked on the dropper in the CS converter and then on the light gray card. The temp varies a little depending on the the precise point on the card.

Also, is PS CS the best way to convert or do better alternatives exist?

Thanks for any help!

[MichaelT]

The dark card is there because of 2 things.

1 - Different RAW converters want different brightness for their click WB. So we give you 2 choices. PS CS would like the lighter one.

2 - For JPEG workflow the darker one is more appropriate.

Regarding RW conversion, we are big fans of C1 RAW Workflow Software. I work for the company so I am biased, but if you read the forums here you will see that C1 is regarded as the best by most. PS CS is good, but we think not as good interms of color and quality, but most certainly in terms of workflow. PS CS is more or less designed for 1 image at a time, where the C1 workflow is designed for adjusting and conveting 100s if not 1000s of images from an event shoot or vacation week..

C1 gas 3 versions for Windows and 2 for Mac. They all have free trials with no restrictions in terms of function. They just run out after 15 or 30 days based on version. Here is the entire lineup. You can download and purchase here at RawWorkflow.com.

http://www.rawworkflow.com/brands/phaseone.html

[trustworthya1]

Thank you, Michael. I will test C1 Pro. Does C1 Pro take the place of PS CS or supplement it?

[MichaelT]

C1 Pro takes the place of the PS CS Camera RAW Plug-In that is part of CS. I would estimate that 50% of C1 users go to PS after converting from RAW all the time, and the other 50% of C1 users, come out from C1 with finished files 90% of the time and go to PS 10%. So C1 is not a FULL replacement for the image editor of PS, bt yes to replace the Camera RAW section. of course there might be some images that you prefer converted in CS, but that is like using a different developed in the film world. So there is nothing wrong with having both at you disposal. But CS is not designed for processing 100s to 1000s of images and C1 is. Also C1 allows you to use 3rd Party Camera profiles, either those you make yourself (not for the meek), or from sources like Etcetera Consulting (ETC)..
http://www.rawworkflow.com/products/etc/index.html

[trustworthya1]

Thank you, Michael. I downloaded C1 Pro and have just started looking at it. In PS CS it's possible to creat an Action to convert hundreds of files if you want to do that (I have just been leaving my images in CRW and converting the ones I really like). Is C1 Pro better than a PS Action?

[MichaelT]

Yes...The action runs slow and takes up all of th machine sresources and means that you cannot use Photoshop or any other program in reality.

With C1 we vonvert files in the background such that you do not NEED to create large batches, if you do not want to. You can adjust animage, send it to the background converter and keep on working on other images. And your computer is able to be used for other things or continue to use C1 for your next job etc. In other words you can work on a job, batch them for development, and while the files are being converted you canbe adjusting the next job. or you can work the job and convert along the way.

The thing is that C1 is a real workflow and PS CS, has some workarounds to workflow. Do not get me wrong. If you are happy with PS CS after you try C1, then keep using it. I am up for the challange. But do not take my word for it, find out for yourself and then use the tool that works best for you. or use both when apprpopriate.

[trustworthya1]

Hi Michael,

I started testing C1 and I can see where it gives me more control than converting is PS CS. I also see how it runs in the background. I am trying to figure out how sharpening works in C1 compared to what I am use to. I have been using Pixel Genious Capture and Output sharpening in CS. Is there anything that explains how C1 sharpens?

David


Yes...The action runs slow and takes up all of th machine sresources and means that you cannot use Photoshop or any other program in reality.

With C1 we vonvert files in the background such that you do not NEED to create large batches, if you do not want to. You can adjust animage, send it to the background converter and keep on working on other images. And your computer is able to be used for other things or continue to use C1 for your next job etc. In other words you can work on a job, batch them for development, and while the files are being converted you canbe adjusting the next job. or you can work the job and convert along the way.

The thing is that C1 is a real workflow and PS CS, has some workarounds to workflow. Do not get me wrong. If you are happy with PS CS after you try C1, then keep using it. I am up for the challange. But do not take my word for it, find out for yourself and then use the tool that works best for you. or use both when apprpopriate.

[cliffordfeller]

I installed the Etcetera Lo and High Sat profiles for the 1DMKII. They run fine in C1 3.5 on the Mac. Problem is when I choose the LoSat as the default by checking it in Preferences >Camera>Profile it does not default in the editing pane. I have 3 choices in the pulldown Hisat first ( the default even thought it is not checked in the preferences) then LoSat then 1dMKII C1 profile. All work fine but I have to manually choose Losat each time. Is this a bug in the preferences or am I doing something wrong? The profiles are great. Eliminates the yellow tinge in the generic.
Thanks,
Cliff

[MichaelT]

The preferences are used to determine how to set captures that C1 has not seen yet. In ther words it is the default for new pictures. Old pictures will stay where they previously were set. In orther words you would not want ALL of the caputures to change profile if you changed the default.

Of course you CAN apply a specific profile al all captures at once using the Apply To function.

Is that clear?

[ulfoto]

CaptureOne is better at batchprocessing than PS CS RAW, but not by much.
PS CS takes a while to figure out by writing an action.
The main difference in my opinion is in the "look". it's a bit like using different film stocks and it depends on which camera as well.
I belive both is reverse engineered. My S2 gets the sharpest files from the Fuji raw file converter, but that converter gives a preview with no connection to what the colors will be....
If you shoot 750 images in a day you cant convert them all by next morning even to jpgs to post for the client with either C1 or PS CS. I use the exif extractor with my fuji s2. 750 jpgs in 3 minutes. BUT no color control - uses roughly camera settings. I wish captureOne would do faster jpg conversions. Need it when shooting hundreds of images with the H25.

[Ethan Hansen]

David: I recommend sticking with sharpening in Photoshop. This allows you to build a sharpening mask from the actual image content rather than plain USM. This is the approach used by the PhotoKit stuff. You also have the benefit of applying the sharpening on layers, so you can fine tune the effects or rework at will.

[trustworthya1]

Thank you. Ethan. That's helpful. I really don't know what PhotoKit does internally and that is something I would like to learn.

[Ethan Hansen]

-> I really don't know what PhotoKit does internally and that is something I would like to learn.

Bruce Fraser details much of the story in a CreativePro article (http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20357.html). Also take a look at the sharpening tips (http://www.russellbrown.com/tips/photoshop.html) on the web site of Adobe's Russell Brown (http://www.russellbrown.com/body.html) (if you have pretensions of becoming a Photoshop geek, Russell is the grandmaster).

Michael: Apologies for dragging this thread so far from the original topic. Trying to get back, one wants to white balance using a card that gives the maximum information for the converter or camera without pushing into the area where the sensor response starts rolling off into clipping. Practically, this means light gray.

Each stop down from the maximum luminance level that your digital camera records has only half the digital information as the next lighter stop. This is because sensors record light levels linearly, while our eyes do not. Practically speaking, this means that gray balancing off a dark surface is prone to roundoff error because there is not that much information to work with. If the only neurtal surface in an image is very dark - asphalt as one example - use it as a starting point. Lighter tones will be more accurate.

At the high end of the scale, the values are entering the digital equivalent of a film shoulder. The red, green, and blue sensors saturate at different rates. Balancing in this region can introduce a color cast if the sensors are no longer balanced. This is why Nikon shooters see a green cast when they balance off of a white card. Underexpose the white card by 2 stops, driving it to gray, and the balance will be perfect.

[trustworthya1]

Ethan -

Thank you for those helpful links. You have a lot of knowledge! Do you use Dr. Brown's Image Processor or do you find that C1 Pro is superior or has everything you need?

I'm also going to read the Fraser article. When I do something I like to understand why I am doing it.

David

[pixelpusher]

CaptureOne is better at batchprocessing than PS CS RAW, but not by much.
PS CS takes a while to figure out by writing an action.
The main difference in my opinion is in the "look". it's a bit like using different film stocks and it depends on which camera as well.


If you shoot 750 images in a day you cant convert them all by next morning even to jpgs to post for the client with either C1 or PS CS. I use the exif extractor with my fuji s2. 750 jpgs in 3 minutes. BUT no color control - uses roughly camera settings. I wish captureOne would do faster jpg conversions. Need it when shooting hundreds of images with the H25.

Not so fast :-) If you are shooting 750 images that were shot all in the same lighting under the same lighting conditions and had good white balance references you could easly convert 750 images in C1 SE/Pro by batching your corrections, then batching the output. What I mean by that is if there are say 25 images of the same scene you could select all of them at once, select the white bal, then apply that to all at the same time. Same applies to exposure, and sharpness.

Once there converted to tiff or jpg you could and I do create actions in photoshop to batch the converted images to the final output. Saves countless hours. Just my .002$ :-)

[MichaelT]

CaptureOne is better at batchprocessing than PS CS RAW, but not by much.
If you shoot 750 images in a day you cant convert them all by next morning even to jpgs to post for the client with either C1 or PS CS. I use the exif extractor with my fuji s2. 750 jpgs in 3 minutes. BUT no color control - uses roughly camera settings. I wish captureOne would do faster jpg conversions. Need it when shooting hundreds of images with the H25.

Ulfoto,

I have GREAT new for you. You are WRONG!!!! :>)

In C1 just use the QuickProofs feature to output color corrected JPEGs at the rate of 1-3 seconds each (depending on your machine).

In Windows use the Workflow | QuickProof menu item

In Windows select QuickProof quality.

In either case you can have 100 COLOR CORRECTED JPEGs in 5 minutes. PS CS cannot do that, but C1 can and does right now!