Profiling 1DS Mark 2

[martin6562]

Has anybody tried profiling the 1DS mark 2 using a Greteg Macbeth colour checker and suitable profiing software to create an icc profile for their camera? I have, results are stunning until you examine the shadow areas - these are blocked out and contain artefacts! Anybody any info on this for me?

[MichaelT]

Martin,

Have you tried the ETC profile for Capture One. I think it is quite good.

http://www.pictureflow.com/products/etc/index.html

Making your own profiles is quite an art and it is not surprising that the results are less than perfect.

[martin6562]

I am simply using a well known profiling protocol - there is little esoteric skill involved just expensive software and charts. Place GregMacbeth 24 colour checker in frame, making sure lighting is even across checker. Take the shot, crop chart then profile using profiling software. This produces results far superior to the etc profiles which I recently downloaded - far, far more neutral. If the lighting in the set is pretty even the results are absolutely stunning - there appears to be problems when attempting low key work - but only in the shadow areas. Indeed the generic CO profile for the 1DS Mark 2 produces similar blocking but less neutral imaging. There must be someone out there also doing this - it is pretty standard colour management protocol.

I am attempting to produce a profile for every situation. These are individual profiles for each lighting setup in my studio.

Bit embarrassed now! Have read several new websites and there lots of problems that I am experiencing being discussed. Sorry Michael!

Any info available on the Coloreyes 2020 software - apparently this is quite good?

[MichaelT]

There are different philosophies about profiling. Ceetainly if you want tp pursue this you should. Many people like the ColorEyes 20/20 system, but I do not have experience with it. Although i have requested a demo version so that I can speak from experience the distributors do not want me to have it for some reason. There is a lot written about it but I can not speak from experience.

There is also the route of a custom ETC profile that we can do for you, but if you do not like the ETC profiles, then you will not like the custom profile that we would build either.

Best of success in your color endeavor.

[martin6562]

Thanks for that. It is not that I do not like the profile from ETC it is just having experienced the neutrality that can be obtained through a 'bespoke' camera profile this what I would like to aim for. The skin tones of new ETC LOSAT profile to me do not appear very neutral. I do now realise that I have opened a can of worms for myself since a 'profile' that works will not be perfect because of the inherent nauances in producing that profile to. I will try anything in my pursuit of a good working profile for my studio that eradicates mucking about with skin tones etc. How do your bespoke profiles work and how much?

[MichaelT]

You send me the camera. I shoot the captures required for the profiling process. They are sent to Norway where the man himself 9Magne nilsen) will create your custom camera profiles (Lo and Hi Sat).

$349 you pay all shipping and insurance. generally I need 1-2 days with the camera. The resultant profiles will be very similar to the generic ETC profiles which used about 5 1DsMkIIs averged. Also the cameras are quite similar, so unless you have gotten a caemra that is far from the 5 it will be very close to the generic. But all 5 cameras were from the same production batch, so we do not know if later cameras have changed a bit. In any event, do not expect a change of more than 5% in each channel.

[martin6562]

Thanks for getting back again Michael. It sounds like I would perhaps be wasting my money given the QC of the 1DS Mark 2. I have posted some questions about the 'artfact like blocking' I am experiencing in the shadow areas -doesn't applying the shadow curve reduce the contrast of the whole image? Is then any advice I find on protocols for shooting raw - eg, how many people shoot in Adobe RGB? I confess to now being completely lost interms of understanding the whole process!

[MichaelT]

The color space that you are shooting in (Adobe RGB) had NO effect on the RAW file. You are shooting in the color space of the camera sensor, and it is the job of the camera profile to translate the bayer interpolated colors into thre working space of CO. The camera settings do not matter (except for Aperture, Shutter and ISO).

[martin6562]

Is it possible to briefly explain what the profile actually does then (correct the colour?) Why is this profile then converted into Adobe RGB 1998- is this a colur space or a profile?. Sorry if I sound a bit thick but since attempting profiling I seem to have lost it!!

[MichaelT]

ICC profiles come in several forms. Some like the camera profiles or printer profiles or monitor profiles are device dependant profiles. They describe the color of a device and are specific to that device and should not be used for anything else.

Some ICC profiles like sRGB and Adobe RGB (aRGB) desribe a working color space, essentially a gamut of color. These are working spaces that should never be assigned to a device and are used to define a file or a working space of a color managed program.

Does that help?

[martin6562]

Ok. Let me see. So when I assign the ETC profile to my camera it is describing the colour of the camera. CO then places these colours inside the ADOBE RGB working space? Is this correct? If correct why is it possible inside CO to assign ADOBE RGB as a profile for my camera (1DS/1DS mark 2)and why is it possible in the camera to assign Adobe RGB as a colour matirx if this is not an acceptable protocol? Thanks, Martin.

[MichaelT]

The camera setting affects thre JPEG output of the camera. has no effect on RAW.

CO allows any profile to be assigned to the camera, just so that no profile will be excluded. people make their own profiles. So like you do not drive your car into a wall, even though you can, you do not assign a color space as a camera profile in CO even though you can.

[martin6562]

I am still a little lost. I can assign Adobe RGB 1998 in the camera though as a colour matrix - if this is like crashing your car into a wall why do Canon allow it as an option? Does CO convert the camera profile into Adobe 1998? When I assign the camera profile in CO and then open the file in CS it asks be if I want to convert the colour space - what do I choose - convert? Hasn't this already been done? Then on savingthe embedded profile is lost - a bit like me really. Help! The more I know the more I realise how much I do not know! Help! Several websites argue it is not possible to assign generic profiles because they are only valid in a small range of lighting conditions?

[JohnMalloy]

Canon allows this because it does set the space for jpegs, and tags the default in DPP and other programs that use the Canon SDK. You should use a camera profile, not a color space in COne, and you can convert to a color space (either sRGB or A1998...your choice.)
...don't belive everything on the web, nor does all profiling software work well. Perhaps stay with the generic/etcetera profiles for a while and see if they aren't just pretty good as they are...many of us use them exclusively and effectively...

[martin6562]

Thanks John. Its a real jungle out there when you get started! What sort of work do you do?

[JohnMalloy]

Full time portrait studio...here's a shot from yesterday:

http://www.pbase.com/jmalloy/image/41461202